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What is the purpose of the 95 thesis. You may think more-advanced open-source casinos are not good for society, but they certainly hold economic value. That isn't a capability I used to have - quite a few hoops to jump through to get a game onto a casino floor, or start up an online gambling website. ARandumGuy 3 days ago root parent next [—].
The previous restrictions on starting your own online casino have never been technological. It's really not that hard to set up your own online casino using non-blockchain technology. The main hurdles are entirely legal.
Gambling has a ton of regulations and restrictions in virtually every jurisdiction, and many governments are more then happy to aggressively punish those who break the rules. Regulators aren't going to look kindly on your MMO gambling game just because "it uses the blockchain. But to me, "creating illegal casinos more easily then before" isn't a particularly compelling use case. This was not a statement about the impact of cryptocurrencies on society. You seem defensive. Find a comment that requires the above defense.
If you're lucky, it's hosted on IPFS and it'll disappear whenever everyone stops seeding it. Otherwise, it's just a link to your image host of choice, and the author is free to replace it with the image of a dick in three months, deleting all your resale value. Since every one on the market doesn't care for copyright, it doesn't matter. NFTs are for laundering money and finding suckers.
Read the directly-following parenthetical. Now now, I'm a smart compiler: I read an entire paragraph of bullshit before calling it out, with detailed error messages. NoGravitas 3 days ago root parent prev next [—]. I mean, the collectible theory can be right, and NFTs can still be for laundering money and finding suckers.
I can see how they could function as the equivalent of the signature on a signed and numbered print. But no one is paying thousands of dollars for ugly monke or lion picrew pfps based on the art. This is a good explanation of why some people perceive NFT's to have value, setting aside if they do or not. The people who believe they have value I think expect at some point a business model will emerge to provide them with income for access to the "art" they "own".
This would create digital scarcity because copies couldn't be used without legal exposure, so any real business or serious person who wanted to use it would pay for the rights to. It's like the Getty Images business model scaled way way up. I don't necessarily think this business model is good for society or will actually happen but it's the way to monetize NFTs. Macha 3 days ago root parent next [—]. And once you're setting up that legal process, what then do you need the NFT for? I presume those who support NFT's I'm not among them would suggest that owners would use the legal process in some cases to set a precedent for enforcing rights so that people end up respecting those rights.
Like parking tickets for private parking lots, the incentive would be just pay to avoid the hassle if you want to use the asset legitimately. I think the odds of this "pay to display" business model coming together are low but if they did it could be a big financial opportunity for those who hold the rights to valuable content.
Contracts are a PITA! If you can write one, once, probably based on a completely standard template and then never talk to a lawyer, sign a transfer of ownership, worry about where that ownership info is stored and updating the information when it changes, etc. Even if a contract is still needed somewhere, the friction is gone.
You can't escape the contracts though. What happens in that initial sale? The owner declares that whoever possesses the NFT owns the good? Under laws like the first sale doctrine, they can't prevent the subsequent owner passing the legal ownership seperate to the NFT so ownership of the NFT still means nothing legally. Well how about they take a leaf out of the software industry book, and instead of selling you ownership of the thing the NFT represents, they sell you a transferrable non-revocable exclusive license that requires in its terms that transfers of the license and transfers of the NFT happen in tandem.
I agree you can't escape having some contracts but I think the NFT supporters would say that the NFT functions like the deed to a property. A problem NFT appears to be an attempt to solve is all the parasitic people, organizations and rules that govern the transfer of assets. These lawyers, title clerks, law firms, title companies, auction houses and governments extract significant rent from asset transfer marketplaces. This rent is a cost to market participants but the larger cost is limiting the liquidity and size of the overall market.
Like imagine if the title to a car was an NFT instead of a piece of paper. I think NFT might just be a complete scam but it might have utility in disintermediating markets.
If the issue is that you don't trust a government enough to allow them to track ownership via updating the copyright registration, then relying on them to help enforce your digital scarcity. In reality the only digital scarcity that NFTs directly create is the scaricty of the token itself. Which is fine, and could potentially be used for interesting purposes. One problem is that they pretty much always require off-blockchain knowledge of which contract is the correct one for the purpose.
The other problem is that most plausible useful purposes I've seen discussed like tracking "ownership" of digital items in a video game could work just fine as a centralized database.
I've yet to see a proposed practical use not "art" of NFTs where all participants are sufficently mutually distrustful that a central database cannot be used. There may well exist such uses, and those might be worth getting excited about. As for the "art", well digital money laundering schemes just don't cut it for me.
Like literally: selling some shitty tokens and buying it using other accounts you own, is a great way to provide an explanation for crypto you acquired from some illegal trade or whatever. If anybody asks where you got the crypto from, you can point to your NFTs, and explain that you are just as shocked as everybody else at how much people are willing to buy this stuff for. Ease of entry, transferability, etc.
Are they simply too big for that to be feasible? Hosting any reasonably sized image will absolutely ruin you in gas costs. They are put on IPFS which can exist forever. URLs can also exist forever. The real point is that they are digital assets that don't exist on the blockchain itself. IPFS is ideal for this use case because the URL contains a hash of the content meaning that either the original asset is served or nothing which you can fix if you have the asset. If you wake up one day to find that no IPFS nodes are pinning the content anymore, it is as good as gone.
Unless you or anyone else has a copy of the file, then they can put it back and the URL will be the same. There are projects trying to create permanent decentralised, content addressable storage in some case as layers on top of IPFS , so maybe even that problem will go away.
Filecoin attempts to solve that by adding an incentive layer on top of ipfs. It's not about images. This is about digital authenticity and historical record that is easily verifiable in an open, global system.
This is instantaneous transfer of those rights or assets to anyone else in the world. Mark Cuban has been a big proponent and has been implementing use cases and I think it's more eye opening once you begin to see more advanced usages.
Just because you download an nft doesn't mean you own it. Proof of ownership is achieved by signing a challenge with the wallet linked with the nft as encoded on the Blockchain. NFTs are a great idea but what people are doing with them now is a scam.
People can build whatever client they want and it uses the blockchain to determine if you own a particular digital game. Then when you want to see it you can just sell the nft. Sounds less dumb and more like unique skins in a game or something. So yes most of it is a scam and tulip fever today but I could see the tech being used for interesting things.
Macha 3 days ago parent next [—]. Let's look at the issues of this one. As a game purchaser, you want to play the game. It'd also be nice if you can resell it when you're done, but this is a secondary use case.
As a game publisher, EA want only people who own the game to play it. They'd also rather they get that money directly, they've previously fought against resale and ownership rights, but let's assume they've given in on that in this example.
So then you need to use that token to sign something to prove to someone that you own the game such that they can provide you the binaries.
What happens if this provider goes out of business? What even is their business model of this binary redemption provider, since there's no guarantee they recieved your money in this decentralised example. So they're hosting data and traffic for potentially zero income. They do this because there's an interest in still obtaining these devs that won't go for steam exclusivity and yet getting their users into Steam for future sales.
The decentralised blockchain means they can go somewhere else very easily next time too, and again, they're not being paid for their services in this example - charging a fee for downloads would be worse for the user and noncompetitive versus centralised services.
Then you get the game. Is the game going to verify with some sort of blockchain transaction at launch? Online only DRM is quite unpopular for games with single player modes. Plus blockchain transactions are slow. Ok, let's assume it does like many games did in the SecuROM era and only checks periodically. What happens when someone comes along and cracks that DRM? Does it solve that problem for publishers? I just fail to see how this solves the problems that exist with game distribution, and there's clear areas where it's worse for every party involved.
For a smaller dev, does saving some percentages of profits to distribution make sense? No, because NFTs don't cover distribution because even a 2d indie game can be multiple gb so won't be on the blockchain. It also ignores that a big feature these distribution platforms offer to developers is discovery too, whether by recommendations, charts, or just seeing what your friends are playing reply.
The tried and tested answer is to think about "buying" the Mona Lisa. If the Louvre offered the opportunity for someone to be called the owner of the Mona Lisa but they could never take it out of the Louvre or any way control it what would that sell for?
I suspect many, many millions of dollars. Similarly, you can give millions of dollars to a college and get a building or park named after you. You don't "own" it, you get social status out of it.
NFTs are no different than having a email from the Beanie Baby store saying that you bought the first beanie baby. If someone wants to buy that e-mail from you, then great, you made a profit. Yes, but you could then have a legitimate court case over the ownership, and might even win the right to control it anyways.
NFTs are a scam because they offer no legal rights whatsoever. I thought that was a fairly normal thing? That is, someone buys or owns a work of art but it's left in a museum in perpetuity. NFTs don't confer ownership of anything except a string of letters. Unless there's a legal system backing them, they're just trading cars. This is like saying: There's nothing stopping me from downloading the Bitcoin source and running my own network. Yes, you have bitcoins but they're not the bitcoins anyone cares about.
Likewise, you have a copy of the image of this NFT but you don't have the actual NFT that members of that community care about. NFTs are a club and if you want to join you have to buy one. Now, you can argue whether anyone should want to join such a club but that's a totally different issue from the right-click-save criticism. NFTs are a scam, but saying that it's because you can download them without paying is missing the point. You could say the same thing about movies, music, games, art.
People in the cryptocurrency community believe that NFTs are used for money laundering. It's also believed that prices are inflated artificially to trick gullible or greedy people into buying them. But the download thing? It's missing the point. A scam implies someone is getting hurt. Yet I haven't seen anyone getting hurt. You might say that people will get hurt when the bubble pops but people have been saying the same thing about crypto for awhile.
Grustaf 3 days ago root parent next [—]. No, that's not it. A scam implies that it's deliberate deception. People being hurt is neither here nor there. And obviously people ARE getting hurt, but that doesn't mean it's a scam. It's just a crazy bubble.
I would say being deceived is also getting hurt… reply. Yes, a scam hurts people, but not everything that hurts people is a scam! This is true. People gamble on the stock market all the time, yet nobody would call it a scam. Quarrelsome 3 days ago prev next [—]. I don't believe in NFTs but I can imagine that they represent a generational wealth in the same way that Elvis memorabilia has probably somewhat peaked in value as it closes its generational capture.
My argument would be that when Pokemon cards came out I'd imagine most adults at the time would think them worthless, its just a card with a picture of a dinosaur on it. The same could happen with NFTs.
People buying into their value today might come good on their value in later decades. Maybe it doesn't have to make sense if enough people believe it. It's like the difference between a genuine pokemon card and a print-off. The print-off looks just like the original, except for a missing security hologram. In theory, you could use the print-off in games of pokemon at home with friends with no problem. So why is the genuine one worth more? Because its the genuine card printed by The Pokemon Company, and you can prove it.
So in a sense, NFTs distill the "genuine" part and separate it from the need for a physical token or card. That said, I am highly skeptical that any NFT will be worth the many thousands people are paying from them now in a few years time. Especially as the platforms they are based on fail to scale and transaction fees become ever more problematic.
You're right, it's just nonsense based around artificial scarcity and commodification of something, in a way that is not grounded in material reality, it is the logical conclusion of financialization, the trading of assets on increasing levels of abstraction to the point where they quite literally have no material value.
Legitimacy, reputation, community. These things are scarce and important. People like nfts. Then to showtime, still there. Open rainbow on my phone, everything goes with me. Add on top of that resales, a royalty system, access keys to discord channels and tv shows, programmability so I can plug together my files however I like.
Maybe I add a rule that you have to share the file with other people or it self destructs. Or you have to pet it like a tamagotchi. All of the content is still freely accessible. So I can listen to all the music and see all the art. And I can have ownership of the things that are special to me.
With a consistent way of referencing the data and signatures. All on the same api. Yeah you could use pgp and share torrents and pay artists over Patreon. But this is easier, faster, and more fun. Think you need to look into how the art market actually functions. The reality of preserving these artifacts goes way beyond just owning the painting, I mean even over time the paintings have to be re-painted over to restore them as they age anyway. Then you have things like videoart, digital art or just conceptual art.
Maurizio Cattelan's "Comedian" piece, if you own it you don't just own the banana till it rots but the concept and the instructions on how to reproduce it for exhibition, it's not the same banana what you "own" isn't very tangible beyond the instructions on how to reproduce the work. The fact you can save an image of the Mona Lisa doesn't mean you own it, sure you probably agree because its a physical object but what about say video art like Bill Viola's works. They're digital but you copying the digital file doesn't mean you own it.
Sure you can copy the ugly ape drawing, you could even try to resell it but buyers can tell it's not the real original ugly ape because of the blockchain. Not defending it either way, just spelling out the mindset that causes it to have value. If in X years the domain in the link to the NFT stored in the blockchain expired and ends up pointing to a new image was it ever an ugly ape? Is there at least a hash of the image stored with the metadata and link?
Remarkably ugly stuff. The market for paintings and other artwork has existed for centuries or millennia. I've never obtained value from it but many people did.
To me it sounds stupid to pay much more than you would for something practically identical, unless you're betting on selling it for more later. I can't see how NFTs are different at all. NFTs do have one considerable "advantage". It's trivial to have your money semi-anonymized in a blockchain, so it's even easier to launder money. It's also much easier to buy your own artwork for ludicrous amounts, so you can make money selling it after some newspapers pick up the story, and no one will suspect that you did it.
An NFT is a bit like going to a book signing. The author sits there, but instead of signing your book, he just hands you a piece of paper with a number printed on it and says "next". You also need to give him a pile of casino tokens in exchange. With luck, somebody else will appreciate your story of how the famous author touched this uniquely numbered piece of paper while thinking about his book, and will give you a larger pile of casino tokens for it.
Whether anyone ever has a copy of the book doesn't really come into it. Youre almost there. But its more like tens of thousands of people putting hundreds of billions of dollars on the line to say that they witnessed the author sign your book, verifying your claims to whoever challenges them. Which turns out to be pretty useful and maybe have value. They witnessed the numbered piece of paper on a table in a bookstore, and the author may or may not have been present.
To know if this piece of paper was actually touched by the author, we still need verification outside of the blockchain. In a way NFTs seem to resemble the medieval church practice of selling indulgences. If you believe in the authority of those mass-produced blessed pieces of paper, they have value. Anyone at any time can see the wallet address that created the NFT. It's trivial for any author or creator to publish their wallet address; it's simply a short hash value.
That's the "verification outside of the blockchain" that you seem to think is such a stumbling point. I would suggest thinking more on the subject if it isn't obvious to you that this has value. Jensson 3 days ago root parent next [—]. It's also trivial for any author to change that message to a new hash so they can sell their NFT's again. Or the service where that message was posted might disappear, so you can no longer view the message and therefore nobody knows that the NFT is "authentic".
So you basically get the same problem as any central authority of trust. In this case you trust the message board the author posts on, and you trust the author, and you have to also trust the service hosting whatever art the NFT points to. If you trust those then why not just trust a regular exchange instead? Simply slapping blockchain on them creates the false illusion that you somehow 'own' it when given that are not even stored on the blockchain in the first place, it tells you that you actually own an expensive certificate that could point to anything since they are really living on centralised servers.
If that is not a scam, I don't know what is. It's like a certificate of authenticity. If you buy a nice watch which comes with a piece of paper saying that Rolex made it, what's actually worth money here? The watch is worth the money, provided you can prove that it was made by Rolex and not a knockoff. Is the certificate of authenticity itself worth money? Who would buy the piece of paper alone? What about if i can make infinite identical copies of the watch?
Things stop making sense once there is no scarcity. Tenoke 3 days ago prev next [—]. Can you explain to me why people buy movies or software they can get identical versions of on the other bay? Or why they go to a live concert with the band playing instead of a venue with an identical recording of it?
Or why they buy a baseball card instead of printing it? The reasons aren't singular nor quite the same but if you can answer those it might be easier to figure out why simplifications like 'i can have the same image' don't cover the whole value people derive from it. People pay for easy access to a wide range of stuff which are in HD personally i use primewire but eh Maybe because they are in a compagny which doesn't wanna be liable for lawsuit. Once again personally as a individual i don't pay for software.
Actually there's a bunch of bands which are supper popular not because they have better songs but because they give better show. None of these reasons are applicable to NFT.
Tenoke 3 days ago root parent next [—]. Everything that's on Netflix is on torrents and even pirate streaming sites since it's the easiest content to pirate. Bands might have a different set live than studio versions but you can play that, and this counts 5 times more for DJs who also attract huge crowds. The extra energy and hype are more akin to the extra energy and hype and bragging rights you get from the NFT community when you have an actual NFT compared to lack of it when you just download the image.
If digital art is as valuable and worthy of recognition as physical art, then look at it through lens of the difference in price between the original Mona Lisa and replicas of it. I absolutely think that digital art is as valuable and worthy of recognition as physical art. My wife is an artist oils and water colors, not digital and we've discussed it at length that the skill and talent required to create digital art imparts equal value.
I'm not arguing against that I'm not saying that's what you're saying either, but just to be clear for folks who read the comments. I do not see the value in being able to "prove" that you own said artwork Globally, the number of people who know what Ethereum or any other block-chain technology means is probably what.. And of those the subset of people who actually care I'm sure is far fewer. So you can only verify yourself as the "owner" of said art to a very small subset of people I guess it's like a collector community?
People are willing to spend literally millions of dollars to prove to other collectors that they are the owners of these digital assets? People will spend millions of dollars on this because belonging to a community is about the most meaningful experience we can have. People will dedicate themselves to that sense of being.
See football clubs, churches, political parties, chess clubs… We spend our lives on computers, digital artefacts and communities will come to be the most expensive items ever.
This has been coming a long time. Digital art is and should be valuable, but how is owning an NFT proof of ownership if no one recognizes it as such? If I own a NFT I get no real world ownership benefits like displaying it on my website, or in my metaverse. The NFT can be deleted by the host and I have no recourse.
There are some really cool things that can be done with NFTs concert tickets, in game items that can be cross-game, etc. The most popular use right now is art. The really interesting thing is that NFT art is really close to real world art: both are ridiculously overpriced for something not very unique that is heavily driven by rich characters trying to hide their money.
All art is dumb, not just NFTs. NFTs are just more liquid. So in this case a scam would be when you pay the price the author wants and not a scam is when you just take it? I get that the pirates would be against NTFs that are the tech of future DRM systems, but they could at least be honest about it. They aren't a scam, or killing the planet etc.
NFT is just a token that represents the artwork. You can screenshot, delete the original file or whatever but the token still exists. Now the value of NFTs can be questioned, and the people who promotes them as well. We know for sure that some people will end up losing money when this fad ends so yeah giant scam indeed, but NFT as a thing still have use case, and you can say kinda the same about bitcoin.
That ownership is only as valuable as the NFT's creator makes them. Example: when Dolce Gabanna issues NFTs they did , your wife and daughter immediately understand the value of having those displayed on a public social network profile, regardless of if tech engineers are still stuck over-intellectualizing them Of course this only works on digital goods.
NFTs on physical objects are scams. AFAIU the owner also has a sort of unique and unfalsifiable certificate that let him cash in on the picture later on if its price ever raise? Like a certificate of authenticity for the Mona Lisa. You may have a very good copy or even the original but without the certificate your version sells for less? Did I get that right? I try to conceptualize an NFT inside of a realm that validates it.
If you do not operate in a realm that validates something about in the NFT, implying ownership. Then the NFT concept doesn't make sense. If we're operating in some type of meta-realm that can also perform validation of some sort, then the NFT concept at least begins to make sense.
They are just the new ponzi scheme, the new penny stocks, the new internet scam. I dare anyone who claims to believe in NFTs to put their entire net worth in NFTs and put that into escrow for 10 years.
The crypto eco-system is mostly about scams. It was interesting tech but it should just be outlawed at this point.
Or an NFT of your shares of stock, so they can't be tampered with, or sold twice in short-sales, etc? It's the underlying tech that's valuable — the jpeg art is just noise. Saved you a cookie banner dismissal. BoredApeYachtClub nfts have a floor price of Zababa 3 days ago prev next [—]. The real scam is people wasting disk space to screenshot or download those horrors. I think about NFTs as digital vinyls.
The cool thing about them is that you can own it, even though you can stream it or download it via torrent. Nobody is getting tricked, a necessary condition for a scam.
Therefore there is no scam. When they discover that what they bought is an NFT, some people are so mad that they blame everyone else for right-clicking. Steve0 3 days ago root parent next [—]. Isn't this comparable to the guy in the Ferrari being mad at other drivers because he's in the same traffic jam as the rest or us?
I get where he's coming from, but that doesn't make it reasonable. And certainly not a scam by Ferrari.
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